Tru-Pac, Flex C Ment, SBC's Mix(3000$ to find out) or Urban Craftsmen($159) - The Vertical Artisans Forum2024-03-28T18:05:56Zhttps://verticalartisans.ning.com/forum/topics/trupac-flex-c-ment-sbcs?commentId=2294914%3AComment%3A74711&feed=yes&xn_auth=noMike Vernelson said:
<sn…tag:verticalartisans.ning.com,2014-09-22:2294914:Comment:1638572014-09-22T14:49:37.668ZKevin Collinshttps://verticalartisans.ning.com/profile/KevinCollins
<p><br></br> <br></br> <cite>Mike Vernelson said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://verticalartisans.ning.com/forum/topics/trupac-flex-c-ment-sbcs?id=2294914%3ATopic%3A63164&page=3#2294914Comment104800"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p><snip> Fiber is ok for thinner applications but you dont want fiber in anything you are carving. Fiber would do absolutely nothing unless enough is added which would be way too much for carving....." <snip></p>
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<p>Hi…</p>
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<p><br/> <br/> <cite>Mike Vernelson said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://verticalartisans.ning.com/forum/topics/trupac-flex-c-ment-sbcs?id=2294914%3ATopic%3A63164&page=3#2294914Comment104800"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p><snip> Fiber is ok for thinner applications but you dont want fiber in anything you are carving. Fiber would do absolutely nothing unless enough is added which would be way too much for carving....." <snip></p>
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<p>Hi Mike,</p>
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<p>Thanks for sharing so much of your knowledge with this community.</p>
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<p>What are the key methods for preventing shrinkage cracking with the massive areas you shoot and carve? water reducers?, plastic wrapped cure? No fiber?</p>
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</blockquote> Dont forget the lathe Ryan! l…tag:verticalartisans.ning.com,2012-08-16:2294914:Comment:1053282012-08-16T01:59:33.228ZMike Vernelsonhttps://verticalartisans.ning.com/profile/MikeVernelson
<p>Dont forget the lathe Ryan! lol.</p>
<p>Dont forget the lathe Ryan! lol.</p> Wow !! This Thread has been g…tag:verticalartisans.ning.com,2012-08-16:2294914:Comment:1054662012-08-16T00:07:29.148ZRyan W.Rallhttps://verticalartisans.ning.com/profile/RyanWRall
<p>Wow !! This Thread has been great !! keep it comin' guys . I guess the biggest difference is that Iam just barely beginning in this trade and coming from Nathan's perspective of mixing it yourself and throwing it on the wall , I guess more of a interior residential style, rather than a commercial style. For instance I just scratched my son's bunkbeds ( made out of 2x6's) and I am going to mix up a batch of trupac and throw/trowel it on and carve it , and do my best to make it look like real…</p>
<p>Wow !! This Thread has been great !! keep it comin' guys . I guess the biggest difference is that Iam just barely beginning in this trade and coming from Nathan's perspective of mixing it yourself and throwing it on the wall , I guess more of a interior residential style, rather than a commercial style. For instance I just scratched my son's bunkbeds ( made out of 2x6's) and I am going to mix up a batch of trupac and throw/trowel it on and carve it , and do my best to make it look like real stone. A far cry from backing up a truck to a pump and shooting it on !!</p> Ha, those are great pics! Yes…tag:verticalartisans.ning.com,2012-08-13:2294914:Comment:1046412012-08-13T20:43:16.276ZMike Vernelsonhttps://verticalartisans.ning.com/profile/MikeVernelson
<p>Ha, those are great pics! Yes Mike Torres is the man! I forgot those guys brought that little pump over! That was fun.</p>
<p>Ha, those are great pics! Yes Mike Torres is the man! I forgot those guys brought that little pump over! That was fun.</p> Jeff and Richard said it perf…tag:verticalartisans.ning.com,2012-08-13:2294914:Comment:1046402012-08-13T15:00:20.464ZMike Vernelsonhttps://verticalartisans.ning.com/profile/MikeVernelson
<p>Jeff and Richard said it perfectly. Oh and Richard, you forgot to mention the scenario of the mason guys stealing out of your sand pile lol! Richard you are also so right in the amount of mud on the wall. Too many times the guy behind the nozzle puts 4" of mud on an area that needs to be thin and flat with just surface textures. I prefer to shoot the mud on because I know exactly where I need thickness and mud to move. I can save myself alot of time and physical torture, but that is in the…</p>
<p>Jeff and Richard said it perfectly. Oh and Richard, you forgot to mention the scenario of the mason guys stealing out of your sand pile lol! Richard you are also so right in the amount of mud on the wall. Too many times the guy behind the nozzle puts 4" of mud on an area that needs to be thin and flat with just surface textures. I prefer to shoot the mud on because I know exactly where I need thickness and mud to move. I can save myself alot of time and physical torture, but that is in the perfect scenario which doesnt seem to take place on a regular enough basis lol! This entire thread has got me thinking alot and everyones input has been very helpfull. The next project I do I'm going to employ some of these ideas and maybe change some of my old ways. I guess my ultimate goal would be to make it work on something large utilizing 3 yard loads from a truck. Its not all about the money with me, anyone that knows me well will tell you I'll make some serious sacrifices if It means a better finished product. I am very high on my square footage price and if I can make the finished product better you bet your ass im into it!</p> Mike Vernelson said:
Ryan m…tag:verticalartisans.ning.com,2012-08-13:2294914:Comment:1048232012-08-13T14:40:19.294ZMike Vernelsonhttps://verticalartisans.ning.com/profile/MikeVernelson
<p><a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2168884135?profile=original" target="_self"><img class="align-full" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2168884135?profile=original" width="604"></img></a> <br></br> <br></br> <cite>Mike Vernelson said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://verticalartisans.ning.com/forum/comment/show?id=2294914%3AComment%3A104638&xn_out=json&firstPage=0&lastPage=1&xg_token=9f0d3c004f41a9c24fca83c352b85639&_=1344868283193#2294914Comment104638"><div><p>Ryan most of the rock I do comes out of a truck and dumped straight into a shotcrete…</p>
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<p><a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2168884135?profile=original" target="_self"><img class="align-full" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2168884135?profile=original" width="604"/></a><br/> <br/> <cite>Mike Vernelson said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://verticalartisans.ning.com/forum/comment/show?id=2294914%3AComment%3A104638&xn_out=json&firstPage=0&lastPage=1&xg_token=9f0d3c004f41a9c24fca83c352b85639&_=1344868283193#2294914Comment104638"><div><p>Ryan most of the rock I do comes out of a truck and dumped straight into a shotcrete pump to be applied. Its pretty much the norm.<a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2168883900?profile=original" target="_self"><img width="721" class="align-full" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2168883900?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="721"/></a><br/> <br/> <cite>Ryan W.Rall said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://verticalartisans.ning.com/forum/topics/trupac-flex-c-ment-sbcs?commentId=2294914%3AComment%3A104752&xg_source=msg_com_forum#2294914Comment104752"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Mike , in your last message it sounded like you were referring to like the one day wall style of carving ? where you get the concrete from the trucks, as opposed to making it yourself or purchasing it from walt tools or Jeff Kirt ? :^)<br/> <br/> <cite>Mike Vernelson said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://verticalartisans.ning.com/forum/topics/trupac-flex-c-ment-sbcs?xg_source=activity&id=2294914%3ATopic%3A63164&page=3#2294914Comment104725"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>I spent some time researching some of these admixtures last night. I am intriqued by a couple of them. I could see a small hand application job being possible. No way would a mix like that be feasable on any job your getting your mud from trucks. The concrete company would charge you a small fortune p/yard.</p>
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</blockquote> Ryan most of the rock I do co…tag:verticalartisans.ning.com,2012-08-13:2294914:Comment:1046382012-08-13T14:31:53.592ZMike Vernelsonhttps://verticalartisans.ning.com/profile/MikeVernelson
<p>Ryan most of the rock I do comes out of a truck and dumped straight into a shotcrete pump to be applied. Its pretty much the norm.<a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2168883900?profile=original" target="_self"><img class="align-full" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2168883900?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="721"></img></a> <br></br> <br></br> <cite>Ryan W.Rall said:…</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://verticalartisans.ning.com/forum/topics/trupac-flex-c-ment-sbcs?commentId=2294914%3AComment%3A104752&xg_source=msg_com_forum#2294914Comment104752"></blockquote>
<p>Ryan most of the rock I do comes out of a truck and dumped straight into a shotcrete pump to be applied. Its pretty much the norm.<a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2168883900?profile=original" target="_self"><img width="721" class="align-full" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2168883900?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="721"/></a><br/> <br/> <cite>Ryan W.Rall said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://verticalartisans.ning.com/forum/topics/trupac-flex-c-ment-sbcs?commentId=2294914%3AComment%3A104752&xg_source=msg_com_forum#2294914Comment104752"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Mike , in your last message it sounded like you were referring to like the one day wall style of carving ? where you get the concrete from the trucks, as opposed to making it yourself or purchasing it from walt tools or Jeff Kirt ? :^)<br/> <br/> <cite>Mike Vernelson said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://verticalartisans.ning.com/forum/topics/trupac-flex-c-ment-sbcs?xg_source=activity&id=2294914%3ATopic%3A63164&page=3#2294914Comment104725"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>I spent some time researching some of these admixtures last night. I am intriqued by a couple of them. I could see a small hand application job being possible. No way would a mix like that be feasable on any job your getting your mud from trucks. The concrete company would charge you a small fortune p/yard.</p>
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</blockquote> Amen !! I like your style Jef…tag:verticalartisans.ning.com,2012-08-12:2294914:Comment:1048122012-08-12T20:50:32.782ZRyan W.Rallhttps://verticalartisans.ning.com/profile/RyanWRall
<p>Amen !! I like your style Jeff :^) <br></br> <br></br> <cite>jeff kirt/ kirtbag Carving mix said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://verticalartisans.ning.com/forum/topics/trupac-flex-c-ment-sbcs?xg_source=activity&id=2294914%3ATopic%3A63164&page=3#2294914Comment104910"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Hello everyone, just cant help but see all these discussions about mixes. Again, we are concentrating so much on this that the actual art and techniques are being put second fiddle. I…</p>
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<p>Amen !! I like your style Jeff :^) <br/> <br/> <cite>jeff kirt/ kirtbag Carving mix said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://verticalartisans.ning.com/forum/topics/trupac-flex-c-ment-sbcs?xg_source=activity&id=2294914%3ATopic%3A63164&page=3#2294914Comment104910"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Hello everyone, just cant help but see all these discussions about mixes. Again, we are concentrating so much on this that the actual art and techniques are being put second fiddle. I believe mike, ken, nathan and several others on here could probably carve a turd into a work of art. The point is this, as mike has mentioned in the past, a standard mortar mix found at any hardware store, with a few things added to it, cement, polymer, etc, will work just fine. This is coming from a guy who sells a carving mix. I know that the standard mortar mix will not stack up 2 or 3 inches at a time like my mix or other high performance mixes, but with patience, you can make it work. For most of us that are doing small commercial/residential jobs, merely taking the time to figure out how much mix you need, then bidding it accordingly, a mix like mine or others is wayyyyyyyyy easier to use than stressing out whether or not your homemade brew will work. Less upfront mess, and less clean up after. As an example, KirtBag, when ordered with shipping included, will cost you about $2.50 a sqft. You should be bidding this work no less than about $18 a sqft. The profit is in there. Saving a buck or less on these jobs are not going to make you go broke. The multiple bags of all this stuff, storage of it, and just the stress added to you worring about it is not worth it, believe me, been there. In closing, bid the job correctly, watch your spending, do what you can handle in a day, and use a mix that will do what you want it to do(KirtBag); shameless plug, the job will be profitable and will ease your stress. Practice with mortar mix, master your technique, then use what is relative to the job. Good luck and make this art/industry thrive.</p>
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</blockquote> Mike , in your last message i…tag:verticalartisans.ning.com,2012-08-12:2294914:Comment:1047522012-08-12T20:47:09.122ZRyan W.Rallhttps://verticalartisans.ning.com/profile/RyanWRall
<p>Mike , in your last message it sounded like you were referring to like the one day wall style of carving ? where you get the concrete from the trucks, as opposed to making it yourself or purchasing it from walt tools or Jeff Kirt ? :^)<br></br> <br></br> <cite>Mike Vernelson said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://verticalartisans.ning.com/forum/topics/trupac-flex-c-ment-sbcs?xg_source=activity&id=2294914%3ATopic%3A63164&page=3#2294914Comment104725"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>I…</p>
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<p>Mike , in your last message it sounded like you were referring to like the one day wall style of carving ? where you get the concrete from the trucks, as opposed to making it yourself or purchasing it from walt tools or Jeff Kirt ? :^)<br/> <br/> <cite>Mike Vernelson said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://verticalartisans.ning.com/forum/topics/trupac-flex-c-ment-sbcs?xg_source=activity&id=2294914%3ATopic%3A63164&page=3#2294914Comment104725"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>I spent some time researching some of these admixtures last night. I am intriqued by a couple of them. I could see a small hand application job being possible. No way would a mix like that be feasable on any job your getting your mud from trucks. The concrete company would charge you a small fortune p/yard.</p>
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</blockquote> Hello everyone, just cant hel…tag:verticalartisans.ning.com,2012-08-12:2294914:Comment:1049102012-08-12T16:23:25.958Zjeff kirt/ kirtbag Carving mixhttps://verticalartisans.ning.com/profile/jeffkirt
<p>Hello everyone, just cant help but see all these discussions about mixes. Again, we are concentrating so much on this that the actual art and techniques are being put second fiddle. I believe mike, ken, nathan and several others on here could probably carve a turd into a work of art. The point is this, as mike has mentioned in the past, a standard mortar mix found at any hardware store, with a few things added to it, cement, polymer, etc, will work just fine. This is coming from a guy who…</p>
<p>Hello everyone, just cant help but see all these discussions about mixes. Again, we are concentrating so much on this that the actual art and techniques are being put second fiddle. I believe mike, ken, nathan and several others on here could probably carve a turd into a work of art. The point is this, as mike has mentioned in the past, a standard mortar mix found at any hardware store, with a few things added to it, cement, polymer, etc, will work just fine. This is coming from a guy who sells a carving mix. I know that the standard mortar mix will not stack up 2 or 3 inches at a time like my mix or other high performance mixes, but with patience, you can make it work. For most of us that are doing small commercial/residential jobs, merely taking the time to figure out how much mix you need, then bidding it accordingly, a mix like mine or others is wayyyyyyyyy easier to use than stressing out whether or not your homemade brew will work. Less upfront mess, and less clean up after. As an example, KirtBag, when ordered with shipping included, will cost you about $2.50 a sqft. You should be bidding this work no less than about $18 a sqft. The profit is in there. Saving a buck or less on these jobs are not going to make you go broke. The multiple bags of all this stuff, storage of it, and just the stress added to you worring about it is not worth it, believe me, been there. In closing, bid the job correctly, watch your spending, do what you can handle in a day, and use a mix that will do what you want it to do(KirtBag); shameless plug, the job will be profitable and will ease your stress. Practice with mortar mix, master your technique, then use what is relative to the job. Good luck and make this art/industry thrive.</p>