Vertical Carving Mixture Design - Non Brandname

[Jonathan Hardisty]

Does anyone use their own mixture design and not one of the brand names (Flex-c-ment, etc)?

I, like a some other members do not stay in the US. I've tried my utmost to source these products locally but just cannot find them. The option to import them is non existent as the exchange rate (R12 to 1$), add shipping, import duties, etc just isn't an option as it would be cheaper to purchase the original local product (cladding,etc).

A normal cement/sand mixture just cannot support itself on the wall let alone stand up to someone carving it.

I know it's probably something most wouldn't want to part with but any help in the right direction would be greatly appreciated otherwise my vertical carving future is doomed.

As for the coloring systems, that's overcome by using acrylic paints which are easily obtained.

Thanks all
Jonthan

[Paul]

What did you use with the shower floor mix? What products are you using for coloring?

Has anyone worked with epoxy/sand mixes for vertical applications? I dont know if you could add epoxy directly to a concrete mix or not, but I have seen how it is used for driveway and ashpalt repair with some sort of epoxy/sand mixture. It can be applied extremely thin with superior strength and even in feezing temperatures. I am in WY but I would rather not work in freezing Temp, LOL.

Michael said:

Hi all..I've been playing around with some lightweight mixes also..I"m ordering some very small eps beads right now..I've worked with the perlite and still am experimenting..however, perlite tends to soak up water..and so, your mix needs water added quite a bit and often..also, I'm trying to find a way to make it much stickier..don't know exactly what to add yet. I found some shower floor mix at home depo that is a lightweight mix..however, I can only build it out about two inches before it tries to fall off the wall..however, it stamps very very well..and get's very hard. I'm also adding polymer to it. If anyone knows of something to add to these mixes to make them stickier..I'd like to know also. Here's a pic of the latest things i'm doing..

[Michael]

I mixed polymer with my 'custom float'..(that's the brand name of the stuff I got from home depo..also added a little more portland along with it. Don't know if you could mix epoxy with this mix or not..wouldn't know what kind of epoxy to use..certainly not the sealer kind. But..experimentation is fun!! I'm going to the 'city' tomorrrow to pick up some lime and possibly some fly ash to experiment with..also looking for some very small eps beads. Will post my findings!

[Shane]

Hi I'm based in Ireland and also having a little trouble in this regard.
I can buy bagged wall mix at the equivilant of $58 a bag, too expensive for messing in my shed with really.
I've been using sand/cement mixes with fibers, but like everyone 1/2 to 3/4 inch is th max it stays.
I have sourced perlite locally and would appricate a guide to ratio's for a mix.
You wouldn't believe the hours I searched the net for this stuff to no avail.

I also have a local guy who tells me he has a by-product of smelting aluminium that will work as an alternative to fly ash as an additive, anyone hae any thoughts on that?

[Peter Taw]

hi shane try equivalent amount of sp perlite( superfine) with sand and half of volume cement . use a polymer as hardener and some (small) plasticiser I found it pretty good and can build up to 40mm but the scratch coat is crucial, big deep horizontal etches. Also leave the mix on the wall fro 10-20 min after troweling and rolling before carving, i can still mould and stamp up to an hour after applying. I can get more depth if I shoot it on but troweling is more than satisfactory and less messy. its all abot trial and error
knowing how much you can work it before it drops off.
Shane said:

Hi I'm based in Ireland and also having a little trouble in this regard.
I can buy bagged wall mix at the equivilant of $58 a bag, too expensive for messing in my shed with really.
I've been using sand/cement mixes with fibers, but like everyone 1/2 to 3/4 inch is th max it stays.
I have sourced perlite locally and would appricate a guide to ratio's for a mix.
You wouldn't believe the hours I searched the net for this stuff to no avail.

I also have a local guy who tells me he has a by-product of smelting aluminium that will work as an alternative to fly ash as an additive, anyone hae any thoughts on that?

[Shane]

Thanks Peter, looking forward to trying out some new ideas!

Peter Taw said:

hi shane try equivalent amount of sp perlite( superfine) with sand and half of volume cement . use a polymer as hardener and some (small) plasticiser I found it pretty good and can build up to 40mm but the scratch coat is crucial, big deep horizontal etches. Also leave the mix on the wall fro 10-20 min after troweling and rolling before carving, i can still mould and stamp up to an hour after applying. I can get more depth if I shoot it on but troweling is more than satisfactory and less messy. its all abot trial and error
knowing how much you can work it before it drops off.
Shane said:

Hi I'm based in Ireland and also having a little trouble in this regard.
I can buy bagged wall mix at the equivilant of $58 a bag, too expensive for messing in my shed with really.
I've been using sand/cement mixes with fibers, but like everyone 1/2 to 3/4 inch is th max it stays.
I have sourced perlite locally and would appricate a guide to ratio's for a mix.
You wouldn't believe the hours I searched the net for this stuff to no avail.

I also have a local guy who tells me he has a by-product of smelting aluminium that will work as an alternative to fly ash as an additive, anyone hae any thoughts on that?

[Kenny]

I am new to this but have been studying what is out there.  One of the most interesting things I came across thus far is to use as a light weight aggregate is “STRYROFOAM BEADS”.  They sell them in large bags at building supply stores as insulation, to add inside of cinder block walls.  It is not expensive and readily available

[Kenny]

Did some research and found good price on 12 cubic feet of  “STRYROFOAM BEADS” @ FOAMERICA.COM

[Kenny]

Here is my question,  we all want a great light weight cement for vertical use, if we find it will we be willing to really share?  I think some of us will say yes and others no. This in the world of information on the net; I have been researching mixes and find they are not available in my area and very expensive.  What I am finding is there are a lot of things available at affordable prices, if you take the time to research.  There are so many sources of information that it’s mind boggling.  There are huge companies that deal with just cement and additives; they are much bigger than the companies that are selling there so called “patented blends”.  And the patented blends really are nothing, in comparison to what is truly available if you take the time to search.  One of these blends even exposed one of the main ingratiate in the MSDS sheet?  Hummm, go figure, why would any company do this?  So, what I am writing is to encourage everyone that all of this hoopla we read and hear is short term.  It will not be long before everyone will have mixes they like and use.

 

P.S. One tip is to use mortar mix; it is much stickier than Portland cement. However, Portland should be used when strength is required.  

[scott dobert]

well kenny im not sure what to say. the disscussions you are replying to are 2 to 3 years old as i know some people are still working on cheap mixes made up for cost effectiveness and ease of accquiring mat but for the most part there really isnt any kind of big secret ingridient or whatever. if you are a member of the vertical artisans training site nathan even walks you trough a video showing and explaining many off the diff materials used in mixes today. i guess what im sayin as someone who is new to this and with all your newfound info the best thing to do is get your choice of materials and startin mixin and givenem a try and see how they actually perform and then you can even get some carve time in!! and remember to post some pics!!

[Kenny]

You may consider this to be an old topic, but it is a dynamic one.  I have not seen this video. Nor did I watch any of the training videos yet.  If  I was to purchase one, what is the name of the one you would suggest (best)?

scott dobert said:

well kenny im not sure what to say. the disscussions you are replying to are 2 to 3 years old as i know some people are still working on cheap mixes made up for cost effectiveness and ease of accquiring mat but for the most part there really isnt any kind of big secret ingridient or whatever. if you are a member of the vertical artisans training site nathan even walks you trough a video showing and explaining many off the diff materials used in mixes today. i guess what im sayin as someone who is new to this and with all your newfound info the best thing to do is get your choice of materials and startin mixin and givenem a try and see how they actually perform and then you can even get some carve time in!! and remember to post some pics!!

[Taye]

Kenny thanks for the info on the foam. Did the foam work as light weight aggregate? Did you get a chance to test it?

Thanks in advance!

Kenny said:

You may consider this to be an old topic, but it is a dynamic one.  I have not seen this video. Nor did I watch any of the training videos yet.  If  I was to purchase one, what is the name of the one you would suggest (best)?

scott dobert said:

well kenny im not sure what to say. the disscussions you are replying to are 2 to 3 years old as i know some people are still working on cheap mixes made up for cost effectiveness and ease of accquiring mat but for the most part there really isnt any kind of big secret ingridient or whatever. if you are a member of the vertical artisans training site nathan even walks you trough a video showing and explaining many off the diff materials used in mixes today. i guess what im sayin as someone who is new to this and with all your newfound info the best thing to do is get your choice of materials and startin mixin and givenem a try and see how they actually perform and then you can even get some carve time in!! and remember to post some pics!!

[George]

Secrets of concrete...

So, there are people selling vertical carving mixes where you just add water and a ton of money for shipping...

Price $50-$60    Amount of carvable material   60 pounds

 

There are people (kirtbag) selling a 20 pound bag additive, but they seem to want to only sell a pallet at a time with ($200) shipping. There seems to be no easy way to "add to cart" either.

Price $12/bag   Amount of carvable material   60 pounds 

 

And there are companies like Stonemakers who's product comes in 5 gallon buckets (powder turned to solution) BUT you can't even BUY the stuff unless you pay $20,000-$30,000 to become a member of the company. However, the point to consider is how LITTLE of the material is needed to make concrete/grout carvable and vertically stackable.

Price $150/5 gallon bucket    Amount of carvable material   10 cubic yards!

 

So what gives?

You'd think with something so efficient it could be sold in quantities like a bottle and added one tablespoon per 80 pound bag. Then there wouldn't be massive shipping charges or having to order a whole pallet.

Why isn't THAT being sold?