Vertical Carving Mixture Design - Non Brandname

[Jonathan Hardisty]

Does anyone use their own mixture design and not one of the brand names (Flex-c-ment, etc)?

I, like a some other members do not stay in the US. I've tried my utmost to source these products locally but just cannot find them. The option to import them is non existent as the exchange rate (R12 to 1$), add shipping, import duties, etc just isn't an option as it would be cheaper to purchase the original local product (cladding,etc).

A normal cement/sand mixture just cannot support itself on the wall let alone stand up to someone carving it.

I know it's probably something most wouldn't want to part with but any help in the right direction would be greatly appreciated otherwise my vertical carving future is doomed.

As for the coloring systems, that's overcome by using acrylic paints which are easily obtained.

Thanks all
Jonthan

[Nathan Giffin Vertical Artisans]

I have a 6 pack of retarder that colors the cement to a light brown and retards the cement at the same time...

Its a deal for $50..... OH wait you can buy Coke a Cola at any supermarket for a fraction of the price :)

Obviously,  people are trying to make money.... that being said, there is a market for just about anything.... add mixtures seem to be the wave of the future and I suspect that all the bag mixes out there will experience " Bag Wars" when our industry and craft becomes more main stream ... which it will....

Until then we either make our own and wrestle with those challenges or we pay a premium for a refined mix.

Most of the basic mix designs are 3 to 1 sand and portland with some or very few additives.... but I must admit ... after using the bag mixes ... there are very nice and MALLEABLE.  But what do I know?

[Christian Maucieri]

"Bag Wars" i'd watch that show!

[jeff kirt/ kirtbag Carving mix]

Hey George, I have to correct your amount of kirtbag you get. Maybe I haven't explained it well. My mix is added to an 80lb bag of mortar mix which gives you around 100lbs of mix, not 60lbs. Anyone can also order any amount they want. Unfortunately, the way the shipping industry is, the more you ship the better the deal. I can ship 1000lbs of material for between $200 and $275 anywhere in the u.s, not bad. When you factor in the cost of my mix, with shipping and the cost of the mortar mix, you end up somewhere between $2.30 to $3.00 a sqft for mix cost. If you ask me, that leaves a lot of room for profit. Just trying to give a different perspective. The problem with people trying to recreate a performance mix is time doing that instead of practicing carving. Also, the money spent on things that don't work out. Then there is the 10 bags of stuff in the garage eating up space. When it comes down to it, most of these big theming companies that do zoos, aquariums, etc, use sand and cement.

[Tru Pac/Walttools/Don]

George, making your own OR getting a good ad pak should cost no more than 2.25 per sq ft for your mix.  That being said, if you are even close to that with your pricing for work, there are bigger issue to deal with.  Get something you like, practice, enjoy, and make some money.

[Tru Pac/Walttools/Don]

George, it may be.

[George]

I stand corrected on the amount of carvable material kirtbag makes.

The main point I was trying to make is that there are additives like the one Stonemakers uses that are vastly, vastly, vastly more efficient it seems.

Let's say I was building a 3 foot tall, 70 foot long retaining wall. That's 210 square feet. I think the video showed kirtbag being 1 and eigth inch thick which is ok for a faux rock carving. It would cost me  $480-$630 to smear a kirtbag mix on. That still doesn't account for the cost of the concrete for the wall structure, or the work to mix and apply the kirtbag product.

 

The stonemakers (mystery to me) additive adds only $150 to the cost of the ready mix, and is already on it so I don't have to mix anything or smear anything. I'd just start carving.

I wish someone would just tell me what that dark brown liquid they are using is..."Wall builder" or even better sell it to me.

[Christian Maucieri]

The bagged mixes and the stonemakers system is for two different applications. The bags are great for small projects requiring great detail. If you are doing a 70 ft retaining wall then yes you may want to look at a different way of doing it. Contact Nathan about the one day walls system. I believe that will satisfy your needs.

[jeff kirt/ kirtbag Carving mix]

Some of these details that are being discussed are still untrue.My  phone number is on my website and here on the forum. I am more than happy to answer any questions or concerns you may have with my mix or others. I can clear up any issues you may have. Thanks

[Nathan Giffin Vertical Artisans]

stonemakers is for retaining walls... Your not gonna order up 7 yards of mix and then add the additives and then do a grout or dry stack look without 6 artists...... Different system apples and oranges.....
And by the way if you think stonemakers add mixtures are inexpensive ... Then just ask those who buy it....
I've heard some pricing as high as 300 a pail....
One day walls is 500 a drum

[George]

Why is Stonemakers 5 gallons and One Day Walls 55 gallons?

Or does One Day Walls also add only 5-10 gallons to a truck? (and sell only by the drum)

And where would someone "add to cart" the One Day Walls product?

[Nathan Giffin Vertical Artisans]

No you can buy it by the Pail....

Pricing Structure

Comp A = $50.00/ pail, $500/ drum

Comp B = Same as component “A”

Comp C = $21.00/ gallon, $90.00/ pail One pail makes 50 Gallons

These are pretty much standard items with a small dosage twist and some magic dust.

These Products are sold by Concrete Earth at www.ConcreteEarth.com

[Jim P. Jenkins]

Nathan, call me. I wanted to see how your project turned out.